kimber 4tc jumpers

[robert_cyrus]

http://www.russandrews.com/images/products/3170l.jpg

anyone used / opinions on these ?
seriously considering getting single lengths of isolda imminently. and so will need something to bypass the links. the kimbers are currently £40.50 in 10% sale

figured would cost me half that (or more?) just to get 8 decent connections (4 bananas and 4 spades i guess) then there's the wire to use ?

thoughts, anyone ?
thanks

[wadia-miester]

Rob, if you ask max nicely, he'll give you some isolda to make jumps F.O.C. he gave Timpy .5m to make his, but be warned very tricky. WM

[robert_cyrus]

tone, thanks for the tip - should really call townsends today !

in fact, maybe they'll make them for me ?

[zanash]

An alternative is if your speakers have the screw down cable clamping method is to do the following.

Take four lengths of copper tube lenght depends on the distance between the terminals plus a 1cm

flatten the tube in a vice and measure the relative positions and dia of the centre pin of the speaker terminals. Mark out on the flat tube, and cut to allow tube to slide into position.

I had a number of sonic benefits using this method over the "normal wire route", probabley due to the very short length, no joints, no crimping, no solder, massive ammount of conductor and it cost next to nothing.

[lowrider]

Or just strip four short pieces of Isolda and use them un-terminated, I do that with 3 wires of my DPA 16 per shunt...

[michaelab]

António I don't know how easy that would be with Isolda as it's the conductors are 2 flat strips of copper about 1.5cm wide. The cables themselves have a special terminating 'box' with leadout wires (which also serves as an inductor):

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/townshend.audio/products/cryospeakercable/speaker.jpg

Michael.

[lowrider]

I am sure he can use pieces like the leadout wires as shunts...

[robert_cyrus]

i'll replace the bulleted MF nuvista with something "nice"

or maybe i'll do nothing

arghhhhhhhhh need more money to satisfy hifi "urges"

[davidcotton]

Robert

Don't know what speakers you have but when I tried the jumpers I did the following :-

Got an unterminated pair of the jumpers (£10 and therefore MUCH easier on the wallet, always a good thing!)

Wired them top to bottom, then plugged the bananas into the "top" of the plugs if you see what I mean.

Cheers...

[zanash]

Whats in the tube on the pic........is it a L-C network ?

Those out lead wire look a bit, well cheap !
As a wireophile does anyone know what the basic wire is ?
The isolda is always recommended but I've never seen a break down of it, to understand why its so highly rated.

[bottleneck]

Hi Zanash

The cable is Goertz M2, he buys it on the reel, freezes it (DCT) and puts a zobel network on the end to make it stable into Naim amps and the like.

M2 is the middle of the range of Goertz M series (M1, M2, M3).

The picture below shows M1 M2 and M3. They are the flat copper coloured cables. M2 is the middle sized one, M3 is the big fat monster one.

Ive always thought that Townshend use M2 because Goertz only sell M1 and M2 on the reel and not M3. I cant imagine it being cost effective for Townshend (or electrofluidics) to make their cable using short lengths of M3.

Goertz doesnt have a UK importer anymore, so anyone wanting it has to get it from the states or buy second hand UK stock. In the US its very popular.

http://www.alphacore.com/images/spread_lg.jpg

[robert_cyrus]

just ordered a 1 metre bfa > bananas pair of isolda speaker cable.
and if you ask, they send you copper jumpers - i guess these should be better than the metal links that come with the speakers ?

and even though the cable is bespoke, they still do 28 days trial - full refund if you don't keep it.

which is nice. should be here by the end of the week, they said.

might get those kimber jumpers on the 60 day trial. see if they work out.

[Robbo]

Zanash, this is what Townshends website says about them :-

Wherever electronic signals are transmitted by wire, be it telephone, video, digital data, radio or TV, the impedance (NOT resistance) of the interconnecting cable is ALWAYS matched to either the source or the load, to prevent distortion. In the case of hi-fi about the most important link of all is the speaker cable – and it is here that this rule is completely ignored. The result is a grossly mismatched connection, with the mismatch being typically twenty-to-one as most speakers have a nominal impedance of about eight ohms and typical cables a characteristic impedance between 100 ohms and 400 ohms. No wonder speaker cables sound wrong!

Townshend Audio Isolda Impedance Matched Loudspeaker Cable, which has a characteristic impedance of eight ohms, remedies this. To achieve an impedance match at such low impedance values the cable must exhibit very low inductance and high capacitance. It is well known that high capacitance can upset some amplifiers, which become unstable. To counteract this, a correctly engineered, inaudible inductor, in parallel with a damping resistor, is inserted in series with each leg of the cable, at the amplifier end, for assured stability. The two inductors also act as a filter to prevent radio frequency interference (RFI), present in abundance at the end of the cable, from passing to the circuitry of the amplifier. Further, the very close spacing of the conductors in the cable provides a further level of RF rejection. The result is black silence.

What happens when the impedance between the cable and the speaker is closely matched? The answer, MAGIC! The sound is fast but not bright; it is clear, open, fatigue-free and grain-free. Bass notes are precisely defined, deep and tuneful, with amazing impact. The midband, especially female vocals and solo instruments, takes on a naturalness never before heard from reproduced sound. The treble is smooth and fast with both brilliance and sparkle. But the cables never sound bright, brittle, grainy or spitty. They just sound ‘right’.

These inherent Isolda characteristics have now been further enhanced by subjecting the copper conductors to deep cryogenic treatment (DCT) and post-tempering prior to assembly. The copper is slowly cooled to about –190 degrees Celsius, held there for a number of hours, and then gradually returned to room temperature. Then it is warmed to 150C before final slow cooling – an important extra step that can only be applied to bare copper. Normal insulation would melt at this temperature, so finished cables cannot be treated this way. DCT is proven to improve the lattice structure of copper, eliminating small ‘dislocations’, and has an amazing effect on the cable’s final sound. Dynamics are improved, clarity is further enhanced and the sound takes on a difficult to describe but immediately recognisable naturalness that untreated cables cannot match.

Construction of the Isolda Loudspeaker Cable is both attractive and practical. The two flat strip conductors and their proprietary insulation are sheathed in a hard-wearing polyester braid, terminated at each end with non-magnetic stainless steel cylinders. These enclose the cable transition as well as the inductors at the amplifier end. Flexible, PTFE insulated silver-plated copper wire tails connect to banana, spade, BFA or Speakon connectors to complete the cable. The strip conductors are arranged to slide over each other, through the braid and through the cylinders, to minimize buckling when coiling the cable. It can be laid under carpet and folded at right angles. It must not, however, be walked upon.

Isolda Loudspeaker Cable is sold in pre-terminated lengths. As the cables are impedance matched, the sound does not change with length, so unequal runs may be used for each channel. Bi- or triwiring makes a significant improvement with suitably equipped loudspeakers. We only make one cable, as there is only one best!


Robbo

[lowrider]

There is an interesting alternative solution for all of you tweakers, I read in AA:

Remove the speaker terminals and solder both internal connections to just one pair of terminals, no more shunt problems... :MILD:

[Chea Johndle]

To counteract this, a correctly engineered, inaudible inductor, in parallel with a damping resistor

Hmmmmm, most amplifiers already have this type of inductor fitted internally...although it is only in series with the + spkr out terminal.

JC

[LiloLee]

Hmmmmm, most amplifiers already have this type of inductor fitted internally...although it is only in series with the + spkr out terminal.

Most correctly designed ones, now Naim on the other hand
:JOEL:

[Robbo]

now now boys;)

you might upset the naimies amongst us :club:

[wadia-miester]

Get your Zobel networks Er......, nice an cheap 2 pound a' £1, get while their hot :D , let your naim be free, get em her all the zobel networks your ever need :notworthy :banghead:

[robert_cyrus]

isolda's arrived yesterday.
ordered on tuesday, arrive on thursday, so excellent turnaround.
nice film can ! (shame could have had some bubble wrap stop them "sliding" about)
the copper connections to use as jumpers were missing - so waiting for the kimber jumpers to arrive.
very well constructed. the metal cylinders slide up and down a little - was expecting them to be fixed in place - but that's ok, obvious that's supposed to happen.
connected them up. had to use "nasty" links. wired them red to top and black to bottom on the diagonal.
improved after a few tracks when i realised the right speaker was out of phase :eek:
omg
good, aren't they ?

[wadia-miester]

Rob, glad you like em, in 99% of systems we tried them in, they'd made a very nice improvement all round. WM

[timpy]

Indeed, success rate has been very high with 'em in the past, so the track record is there. Glad you like them.

There's no way I'll part with mine.

Cheers

[Neil]

I replaced kimber monocle cable with isolda 2 months ago - it's a really impressive cable, especially "out of the tin"

Now it's run in I'm still impressed - it's tighter in the bass than the kimber cable ..BUT....I'm beginning to feel it errs more on the hi-fi side than the "music" side.

N

[julian2002]

still not heard isolda in my system thanks to a lack of length on wm's part :eek:
naim recommend speaker cable with specific inductance and capacitance values so a zobel network isn;t necessary as they believe that sticking some resistors and capacitors in the signal path is going to have a effect on the sound.
on the other hand if cable with a zobel network attatched sounds better than naca 5 then what the hell...
it's not to do with 'propper design' it's to do with signal clarity and choice.
but then it's naim so it must be bad design or just bad according to some..:rolleyes:

i've tried chord odyssey and naim naca 5 in my system and the naca 5 walks it for the things i consider important to my listening pleasure but ymmv.
cheers

julian

[lowrider]

wired them red to top and black to bottom on the diagonal

You are supposed to wire both to the high, (tweeter), terminals...

[robert_cyrus]

Originally posted by lowrider
You are supposed to wire both to the high, (tweeter), terminals...

didn't we try this at the bake off (a while ago now) at lilolee's ?
general consensus was it was best on the diagonal i thought.
anyway, both +ve's and -ve's are connected together by links / jumpers / whatever, so makes no practical difference.

[lowrider]

I didn´t bother testing, after I was told that this is the way speakers with just one pair of terminals are wired internally, plus reading many opinions, by people who bothered testing, saying it is the way it sounds better... :rolleyes:

Any way, diagonally makes the less sense to me... :confused:

I would think it makes the same sense as conecting the most sensitive gear to the first sockets of the power bar, if you have only one... :MILD:

[test tone]

Wherever electronic signals are transmitted by wire, be it telephone, video, digital data, radio or TV, the impedance (NOT resistance) of the interconnecting cable is ALWAYS matched to either the source or the load, to prevent distortion. In the case of hi-fi about the most important link of all is the speaker cable – and it is here that this rule is completely ignored. The result is a grossly mismatched connection, with the mismatch being typically twenty-to-one as most speakers have a nominal impedance of about eight ohms and typical cables a characteristic impedance between 100 ohms and 400 ohms. No wonder speaker cables sound wrong!

Townshend Audio Isolda Impedance Matched Loudspeaker Cable, which has a characteristic impedance of eight ohms, remedies this. To achieve an impedance match at such low impedance values the cable must exhibit very low inductance and high capacitance. It is well known that high capacitance can upset some amplifiers, which become unstable. To counteract this, a correctly engineered, inaudible inductor, in parallel with a damping resistor, is inserted in series with each leg of the cable, at the amplifier end, for assured stability. The two inductors also act as a filter to prevent radio frequency interference (RFI), present in abundance at the end of the cable, from passing to the circuitry of the amplifier. Further, the very close spacing of the conductors in the cable provides a further level of RF rejection. The result is black silence.

What happens when the impedance between the cable and the speaker is closely matched? The answer, MAGIC! The sound is fast but not bright; it is clear, open, fatigue-free and grain-free. Bass notes are precisely defined, deep and tuneful, with amazing impact. The midband, especially female vocals and solo instruments, takes on a naturalness never before heard from reproduced sound. The treble is smooth and fast with both brilliance and sparkle. But the cables never sound bright, brittle, grainy or spitty. They just sound ‘right’.

These inherent Isolda characteristics have now been further enhanced by subjecting the copper conductors to deep cryogenic treatment (DCT) and post-tempering prior to assembly. The copper is slowly cooled to about –190 degrees Celsius, held there for a number of hours, and then gradually returned to room temperature. Then it is warmed to 150C before final slow cooling – an important extra step that can only be applied to bare copper. Normal insulation would melt at this temperature, so finished cables cannot be treated this way. DCT is proven to improve the lattice structure of copper, eliminating small ‘dislocations’, and has an amazing effect on the cable’s final sound. Dynamics are improved, clarity is further enhanced and the sound takes on a difficult to describe but immediately recognisable naturalness that untreated cables cannot match.

Construction of the Isolda Loudspeaker Cable is both attractive and practical. The two flat strip conductors and their proprietary insulation are sheathed in a hard-wearing polyester braid, terminated at each end with non-magnetic stainless steel cylinders. These enclose the cable transition as well as the inductors at the amplifier end. Flexible, PTFE insulated silver-plated copper wire tails connect to banana, spade, BFA or Speakon connectors to complete the cable. The strip conductors are arranged to slide over each other, through the braid and through the cylinders, to minimize buckling when coiling the cable. It can be laid under carpet and folded at right angles. It must not, however, be walked upon.

Isolda Loudspeaker Cable is sold in pre-terminated lengths. As the cables are impedance matched, the sound does not change with length, so unequal runs may be used for each channel. Bi- or triwiring makes a significant improvement with suitably equipped loudspeakers. We only make one cable, as there is only one best!


With this level of nonsense one assumes that Townshend - like most cable manufacturers - prefer a less technically adept patron?.

[Robbo]

have you heard them?

doesnt really matter what the sales blurb says, they certainly do something right.