The ultimate PRaT systems....

[michaelab]

...must surely be those used in clubs? If ever a systems raison d'etre was to get your foot tapping and have pace, rhythm and timing surely it is a club system where no one gives a monkeys about timbral accuracy or soundstage and all that's important is getting the punters "shaking that ass" on the dance floor?

Do many clubs use Naim gear? :D (sorry, couldn't resist)

Michael.

[julian2002]

michael,
there is a dj that uses 2 linn lp 12's... can't remember his name i'll have to dig up the article...

i think the foot tapping ability of club systems is more than helped out by the abundance of mind altering chemicals.. i don;t drink and i rarely find my foot tapping in a club... a connection methinks. this is the wonder of naim... the fact that you don;t have to be off your t*ts to enjoy it :p :D
cheers


julian

[auric]

Julian,
I think you are partly right about the
abundance of mind altering chemicals I would like to add the crush of a pounding beat and the subliminal effects of buckets of pheromones leeching from the punters sure does contribute to an exciting evening.


Auric:)

[Nepherim]

I think a lot of that is due to the volume and the atmosphere, chemically induced or not. If you've ever been in a club when it's empty, the sound system is usually all kinds of nasty. When it fills up with bodies the sound mellows out. Now when everyone is going wild, your feet find that groove thang.

~ ~ Dave

[SCIDB]

Hi

there is a dj that uses 2 linn lp 12's... can't remember his name i'll have to dig up the article...

The Dj is a bloke called David Mancuso. He started a club called the Loft in the loft of his house in 1970. He was keen on sound quality & used Mark Levinson amps, Klipshorn speakers & hand crafted Koetsu cartridges.

In 2001, Grahams installed a pair of LP12s for a gig he did in London.

SCIDB

[julian2002]

thanks dean, that's the bloke,

you ARE the dean of music.
cheers


julian

[michaelab]

Dean - perhaps you'll know this: Why is the Technics SL12 so popular among DJs (is it even that popular)?

Michael.

[dominicT]

Originally posted by SCIDB
Hi



The Dj is a bloke called David Mancuso. He started a club called the Loft in the loft of his house in 1970. He was keen on sound quality & used Mark Levinson amps, Klipshorn speakers & hand crafted Koetsu cartridges.

In 2001, Grahams installed a pair of LP12s for a gig he did in London.

SCIDB

I'm surprised that the speaker bass output did not send the arm skating across the t/t. This is exactly what used to happen when LP12's were fed through IAS speakers. The bass output descirbed by hifi mags at the time as 'window shattering' and used to make the arm mistrack, so much so that every Linn dealer was forced to chose between stocking Linn and IAS. Guess what, my mate's firm went bust as a result. Now if you said that he was using a Rock, then I would have believed you;-)

dominicT

[julian2002]

michael,
from what i understand. it's cheap, built like a brick outhouse and has a very quick startup direct drive motor (important what mixing and scratching i would think).
cheers

julian

[vicdiaz]

Hi,

Check this URL:

http://www.mickmusicpage.net/mancuso.htm

Cheers!:D

[MO!]

as stated, 12s and 1210s are built like tanks! Direct drive with high torque for quick startup times. The other obvious diferences between them and "hifi" tt's are things like pitch adjustment, built in light to keep track of speed. And it's also heavily damper.

Big up the ones an twos!

[SCIDB]

Hi

Dean - perhaps you'll know this: Why is the Technics SL12 so popular among DJs (is it even that popular)?

The Technics SL1200 are popular because they are quite well built, Direct drive with good torque & pitch control. They have good adjustment feature such as arm height, quick stopping, on board lighting & easy to use pitch control. These are things that are needed for Djing.

In the early days of DJing, all the disc jockey did was put on a record, play it, talk, take the record off, then put another one on. As dj skills increased & the need for mixing & other tricks increased, better turntables were needed.

Early decks were belt or idler driven but direct drive came into race in the late 60's. Some of these were very well built. Direct drives were started to be used. The better ones had much quicker start up times. They were up to speed by quarter a turn of the platter. A belt drive may take a few turns.

The direct drives were one piece constructions with good reliability. Belt drive turntables were more complex. some couldn't take as much hammer.

With the rise of the discos & mixing, the Technics could stand the heat. By the late 70's the Technics SL1200 were finding their way into more & more Dj boxes. The big fave, the SL1200 & 1210 mkII came out in the early 80's. This coincides with the rise of the skilled Dj. Hip hop & House were on the rise & the Technics was the tools of the trade.

For example, when mixing you need to be able to place the needle on the record & be able to hold the record still. The record is on a slip mat which allows the platter to be still turning. When you release the record, the sound kick in right away. No slow build up. Most belt drive wont to this as well.

Technics saw this & backed DJing.

As cd came in the equation, DJs still used vinyl. In fact it was DJ culture that help save vinyl.

The Technics is still in production. It does have competition from the likes of Numark but it still is the iconic product.

I use Technics for my Djing.


SCIDB

[michaelab]

I wonder how good a TT the SL12 and SL1210 would be as a HiFi TT? :eek:

Presumably pitch adjustment is used to bring the beat of two tracks "in synch" with one another so that a seamless mix from one to the next can be done?

Michael.

[SCIDB]

Hi

I'm surprised that the speaker bass output did not send the arm skating across the t/t. This is exactly what used to happen when LP12's were fed through IAS speakers. The bass output descirbed by hifi mags at the time as 'window shattering' and used to make the arm mistrack, so much so that every Linn dealer was forced to chose between stocking Linn and IAS. Guess what, my mate's firm went bust as a result. Now if you said that he was using a Rock, then I would have believed you;-)

I understand that David Mancuso had sound & acoustic engineers in to sort out his sound. This included having a damping system for the decks. I remember reading about a fluid or air system was used to rest the turntables on. Also his style of Djing is more of the put a record on, play it to the end then start the next record

I know the sort of thing you mean. This is something that can happen with alot of turntables. If the speakers are producing too much bass (sub sonic) this will happen. A lot of clubs should have the bass bins out of the line of fire with the decks. Also graphics in clubs should be set to cut down on sub sonics. Decks are also better isolated. I think ministry of sound use a system similar to the one that David Mancuso used. I sure the club is based around the loft.


DominicT

I also remember IAS speaker and hearing about that test. It was a shame IAS went bust but the early 80's were a Flat earth stronghold.

SCIDB

[MO!]

Originally posted by michaelab
Presumably pitch adjustment is used to bring the beat of two tracks "in synch" with one another so that a seamless mix from one to the next can be done?

Michael.

Yep. the 1200 and 1210 (MK2) have +/-8% while the 30th anniversery 1210 MK5 can also be switched over to +/-16%

Oh and there's a blue LED on the MK5! Copying MF!!! :D

[SCIDB]

Hi Michael,

the pitch controls allow you the change the pitch of a record & allows for seamless mixing.

The Technics decks lack the resolution & detail of good hifi decks. The bass sounds fuller. Can be deep & bloated at times. The note lack the sort of shape you may be used to getting. You can follow what going on. I have heard a lot worst decks but I've heard better. Most of the better ones cost more.

SCIDB

[julian2002]

michael,
there was an article in hi-fi world a while ago about adding an rb250 arm to an sl1210 this aparently improves the thing no end from the standard arm but it looked quite complicated to make the mdf adapter (i think someone is marketing a pre-made carbon fibre arm board (?).
aparently the deck sounded quite respectable with this mod and would probably be even better with an OL or moth tweaked version of the arm.
i'll try to dig out the article and post up the conclusions...
cheers


julian