Law of diminishing returns

[Jackthebiscuit]

What are peoples views on when the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and do you agree that more often than not, you end up having to pay, say 90% more for that last 10%'s worth of performance?

[johnhunt]

It's a factor. Once you've reached a certain point like

speakers 2.5K retail
amp 2.5K retail
cdp 1.5K retail
etc. etc.

you've got to go to silly money to get any worth while improvement (IMHO). This is where cables, mains conditioning,racks rooms,treatments,tt mods,carts and all the other stuff that is endlessly discussed becomes the only realistic opportuntiy for an upgrade for many and I include myself in that.

John

[michaelab]

I'd agree with you John. I've done the mains conditioning, power cables thing and a tried various isolation tweaks and don't particularly care to go "to the next level", tweak wise.

I do think I can get a worthwhile improvement in my source and amp though so those are both on the schedule to be upgraded, but not for silly money - £2-3K at most (each). Beyond that point, I really do think dminishing returns kick in with a vengeance.

I'd love to compare a £15K system with a £100K system just to see how big the difference was though.... :p

Michael.

[julian2002]

i'd say that if you are careful then useful gains can be had up to about 10k for the complete system or about 2k per component.
i.e
cdp, pre, power, speakers, wire.

after that diminishing returns really starts to kick in and your even encounter stuff that does a few things absolutely amazingly but loses the plot on others.

of course buying 2nd hand can skew things a bit but on new stuff i'd say that's my view.
cheers

julian

[auric]

John,

You could well be right - but first why not try

cdp 2.5K retail
amp 2.5K retail
speakers 1.5K retail
etc. etc. and see if things get a little better.

I think you have correctly outlined the symptoms associated with the all too common complaint of the Hi-Fi Fetish (http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=113) and the more time spent visiting this and other related fora the worse the trouble becomes.

The only cure I can think of is to have no contact with hi-fi (either kit or forum members) for a period of a month or so and the see how you feel at the end of the period. It might help - you can never tell.


Auric:)

[johnhunt]

auric

The value's i used are close to my own system but I take your point about the loudspeakers , they are a bit ott. as for the cdp we all know that cdp's beyond 1K all sound the same. although throwing more money at a tt is good fun and can be worthwhile:)

John

[wadia-miester]

Originally posted by michaelab
I'd love to compare a £15K system with a £100K system just to see how big the difference was though.... :p

Michael.

Mike proberly near the £25K mark I feel, some of the differences will be fairly large, others you will feel hardly any at all on first listen, however a 'Live with' comparision is requires for about week or so, then go back and re-evaluate, some system can be hugely different, however the vast majority are poorly set up and are not giving the full potential. WM

[lowrider]

I had started a similar thread in GH, my point was that after testing the new TAG processor, I cannot live with the old one... :(

So I would say it depends, if you test both without experience, the difference in cost cannot be justified, but if you live with the lesser product, then buy the better one, the improvement will feel much greater, and, IMHO, justify the cost... :MILD:

[Robbo]

In my view, the higher up the ladder you go, the more difficult it is to get the best out of the system, and system setup becomes more crucial. All too easily, diminishing returns kick in with a vengeance.

Often a well set up £10K system (with mains, supports and cables taken care of) will give better sound quality than a £25K+ system which is not fully optimised.

FWIW, my advice : Get the basics right before box swapping! The good thing is that the basics dont need to be horrendously expensive either :D

Cheers, Robbo

[auric]

If I think back to the 80’s when I brought my first set of Linn + Naim kit the bill came to about 3 months gross salary. During the sales demos I had the chance to listen to some systems valued at up to nearly 3 years gross salary.

So, how did these systems compare?
Well they sounded different and so they should - I liked all of them.

Do I now aspire to a system valued at almost 3 years gross salary?
No, but if someone brought me one I’d be happy to use it.

I think these wise words from Robbo say it all

FWIW, my advice : Get the basics right before box swapping! The good thing is that the basics dont need to be horrendously expensive either


Auric:)

[PBirkett]

Originally posted by johnhunt
speakers 2.5K retail
amp 2.5K retail
cdp 1.5K retail
etc. etc.


Yeah right. Try dividing that by 5 - 10... :p

[johnhunt]

paul

if that's where you wanna go i'm sure you'll get there

john

[johnhunt]

as for getting the baiscs right I'm the worlds worst. all the kit is stacked in a childproof wooden box. the tt isn't level although , and graham would be proud, the bruckner I'm spinning sounds good enough.

by the my speakers are hard up against the wall and wobble a bit if you nudge them. i am a disgrace

[PBirkett]

John, already there

Paul :MILD:

[johnhunt]

good