GrahamN
22nd June 2003, 02:15
I bought this amp as a bit of an experiment. I'd often wondered what a reasonably powered Class A amp would do, as my main problem with most standard amplifiers is hash around the sound of a violin section, and this appeared to offer the best compromise between solid state grunt and SET purity. I've has several demoes of push-pull valve amps in the past and love the sound, but they (or at least affordable ones) have never had the power I want. I listen to primarily classical orchestral, particularly from the late 19th/early 20th cent and that needs to be played LOUD! So when this came up on ebay at a price worth a punt, it seemed worth the gamble, despite me knowing virtually nothing about it.
A few details (sparse and uncorroborated - I will try to get further information from the manufacturers):
Power: 100W into 8ohms, 200W into 4, 380 into 2 and 600 into 1
Current: 50A DC, (although that doesn't seem to tally with the power figure) 100A peak
Voltage Slew rate: >1000V/usec (don't know whether that's good or not , but it sure sounds impressive)
Bandwidth: DC to 4MHZ (!!!!)
Power supply: 4x500VA transformers
Size: 550x500x150mm
Weight: 55kg
Various switches for:
Pure Class A/Reduction (20W before slipping into B)
Single ended/symmetric configuration
XLR/RCA inputs
Automatic power-down (based on input signal level)
One really attractive feature was the reduction mode, so I can cut down on the leccy bills and save the planet. The other is the XLR inputs, as I've several times heard my CDP sound much better driving balanced that single ended. The concern was whether 100W would be enough - as I said I do like my music loud (when called for).
So I've been listening to it for about 2 days and how does it sound? In brief - I've never heard anything better! Now I know I said pretty much the same when I got my MF NuVista M3 - but I was comparing that against my previous 25W Technics, and high street stuff up to 2K (+ higher priced valve gear). Since then I've heard a fair bit more gear and see that the M3 is not the be-all and end-all, but it's still a damned good amp (unless you tend to the Naim end of the spectrum, when it's the devil incarnate)
Partnering Equipment:
CDP: Wadia 861 (http://www.wadia.com/products/products_main.htm)
I/C: NuVista 2.5m, standard (WBT) connectors, direct into pwr amp.
Speaker cable: Townshend Isolda DCT (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/townshend.audio/products/cryospeakercable/deepcryospeakercable.htm) 3.5m, single wire, spades both ends
Speakers: Meadowlark Heron-i (http://www.meadowlarkaudio.com/Heroni.htm) (+DIY links - 36 strands of 30awg wirewrap - same recipe as TNT UBYTE-2 tails)
Power: bog-standard kettle cable from a sureg-protect multiway adaptor - I'm not risking my 1000VA power conditioner until I know how much juice those transformers really draw.
Strengths:
1) Holographic imaging and huge soundstage. I thought the M3 was good, but this is staggering.
2) Crystal clarity
3) May be the flip side of the above, and I'm not the most sensitive in the world to speed - but if this isn't lightening fast I'd like someone to show me the difference.
4) Beautiful openness and purity in the upper half of the audio spectrum: violins, upper woodwind and female vocals are superb
Weaknesses:
1) Tonal balance? Not really sure yet, but see below
When I got the thing home and my back eased off after unpacking it (1am), I tried it with my latest favourite piano - Murray Perahia playing Chopin Etude Op 10 No 4 - and was amazed by the clarity of the sound. I heard him playing this live earlier in the week, and this was a damn close facsimile.
So what have I tried on it:
Poulenc: Organ Concerto (serious bass notes and immense attack from the kettle-drums)
Chopin: Etudes (part meltingly lyrical and part ferocious piano)
Glass: Violin Concerto ( a) frenetic and b)serene violin)
Elgar: Cello concerto and "Sea Pictures".
Mahler: Symphonies 1 (gypsy/jewish band impressions, bass drums)
Mahler: Symphony 8 (part 2 opening incredibly quiet and delicate, pp solo instruments dotted all over the orchestra; finale huge choir, orchestra and organ, very loud)
Moeran: Symphony in G - english pastoral, rolling hillside music.
Beethoven: Grosse Fuge (string quartet)
Schubert: String quintet in C
Handel: Royal Fireworks Music - majestic 18th cent pomp
Scarlatti: Period (i.e. reedy) violins and harpsichords, with immense dynamism and energy.
Albeniz: Suite Espanola (Julian Bream) - meltingly tender acoustic guitar
Faure Requiem: small choir and orchestra
John Tavener: Song for Athene - a capella cathedral choir (sung as recessional at Lady Diana's funeral)
"Friday Night in San Francisco": high-speed Flamenco/jazz guitar trio
Mingus: "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady"
Ellington/Strayhorn: "His mother called him Bill"
Queen: Live Magic
U2: Joshua Tree
Paul Simon: "Graceland"
Overall impression:
Quite simply, the most realistic representation of an orchestra I've ever heard from a hi-fi (although that may not be saying a lot). It's still not the real thing, but I doubt I'll come any (OK much) closer. The layout and separation of the instruments is crystal clear, stuff that should be at the back is there and stays there when the violins start showing off. You can hear them still showing off even when the organ is at full tilt. And there's no hash ;) (well on a good recording anyway). The lyrical bits are pure honey (when they should be). Janet Baker's voice in the Elgar "Sea Pictures" is staggeringly beautiful and rich: I always felt this was a great performance and recording, but I am now getting nuances coming through I never imagined before - now I see why people thought so highly of her in her prime.
And in case you think this is all at the expense of pace etc, I have also never heard anything close to how the "Friday Night" sounded. These guys were in the room with me and the precision of their playing was quite mind-blowing. The dynamics, the fingering....At one point (10:59) in the first track, I've just noticed that someone in the audience (or is it McLaughlin) joins in with a bit of impromptu percussion - four strokes on a beer-bottle (can't tell whether its just Michelob or something proper like Anchor Steam!), and a bit closer listening shows up them doing it much quieter for the previous 10 secs too.
Turning to the "Graceland" - this had all the bounce I could possibly want (particularly in "Call Me Al" and "That was your monther"). And "Under African Skies" worked its usual magic. Lilolee once commented that a particular system was the one he would use for trying to learn a bass-line. I suggest that this beats that into a cocked hat! And the deep bass is pretty impressive too. In the Tavener (recorded at Westminster Abbey) I kept hearing the faint rumble of traffic noise - before pausing the CD and realising it was on the recording. I also now hear a line an octave below what I previously thought was the bass line in the Poulenc.
Oh and the worry about this being only 100 watts? No - this is 100 WATTS. Maybe not as big as a valve watt - jury's out on that - but it sure beats any of your wimpy Class B watts! I had the Mahler on at warp 11 and pretty much the only distortion I could hear was inside my ears. And all the choral parts stayed as distinct as they should (but the choir still sang as a whole). The Poulenc also had some serious bass notes - I would guess about 20-25 Hz - which got me worried about the extension on the woofer cones (getting up to 1cm :yikes: )
So this is fantastic....my perfect amplifier.....isn't it?
Well, this clarity does have a downside. The string quartets are wonderfully present, but the violins are just a bit too incisive for my taste. You definitely get the front row seat and while I do like immediacy, this is too much of a good thing. Even the Berg's version of the "Grosse Fugue" (one of the smoothest out) got me wincing from time to time, and the Lindsay's Schubert showed up their tendency for thinness.
This also started me thinking I wasn't sure that I was getting as much upper bass/lower mid as I expected - cello etc.. This was particularly shown in the rock albums, where I could hear the bass guitars and percussion tracks wonderfully, but Bono's and Mercury's voices did not project as much as I expected. Maybe this is a more accurate rendition of what's on the disc (mastered for the midi?) than I've had before, but at the moment it feels a bit strange.
So where does that leave me? Feeling pretty happy - unless I come across any more problems it looks as if the gamble paid off big time. The sound I'm getting now is streets better than anything I've had here before:
the imaging is close to that I got from the Wilson speakers (even with the TACT), although only if you sit in the sweet spot - the Wilsons did it just about anywhere;
the smoothness and clarity is better than the Bel Canto (although a head-to-head may be required to validate that);
warp factor 11 is enough for me (whereas WM needs 14).
To address the problems I can see at the moment, I think the current plan would be to get myself:
a) balanced cables for the direct CDP-PWR link for recordings where I want the crystal clarity
b) a dark sounding pre (valve?) for where I want a more mellow presentation.
I can then plug both in at once and select using the toggle switch on the amp - and I need something for a radio/TV input anyway (and then there's a TT? Not sure about the sound, but some of them are gorgeous-looking pieces of engineering :D )
And then I'm done! :banana:
(It looks like the M3 could be on its way out. And the Bel Canto is definitely off my shopping list - for now ;) )
A few details (sparse and uncorroborated - I will try to get further information from the manufacturers):
Power: 100W into 8ohms, 200W into 4, 380 into 2 and 600 into 1
Current: 50A DC, (although that doesn't seem to tally with the power figure) 100A peak
Voltage Slew rate: >1000V/usec (don't know whether that's good or not , but it sure sounds impressive)
Bandwidth: DC to 4MHZ (!!!!)
Power supply: 4x500VA transformers
Size: 550x500x150mm
Weight: 55kg
Various switches for:
Pure Class A/Reduction (20W before slipping into B)
Single ended/symmetric configuration
XLR/RCA inputs
Automatic power-down (based on input signal level)
One really attractive feature was the reduction mode, so I can cut down on the leccy bills and save the planet. The other is the XLR inputs, as I've several times heard my CDP sound much better driving balanced that single ended. The concern was whether 100W would be enough - as I said I do like my music loud (when called for).
So I've been listening to it for about 2 days and how does it sound? In brief - I've never heard anything better! Now I know I said pretty much the same when I got my MF NuVista M3 - but I was comparing that against my previous 25W Technics, and high street stuff up to 2K (+ higher priced valve gear). Since then I've heard a fair bit more gear and see that the M3 is not the be-all and end-all, but it's still a damned good amp (unless you tend to the Naim end of the spectrum, when it's the devil incarnate)
Partnering Equipment:
CDP: Wadia 861 (http://www.wadia.com/products/products_main.htm)
I/C: NuVista 2.5m, standard (WBT) connectors, direct into pwr amp.
Speaker cable: Townshend Isolda DCT (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/townshend.audio/products/cryospeakercable/deepcryospeakercable.htm) 3.5m, single wire, spades both ends
Speakers: Meadowlark Heron-i (http://www.meadowlarkaudio.com/Heroni.htm) (+DIY links - 36 strands of 30awg wirewrap - same recipe as TNT UBYTE-2 tails)
Power: bog-standard kettle cable from a sureg-protect multiway adaptor - I'm not risking my 1000VA power conditioner until I know how much juice those transformers really draw.
Strengths:
1) Holographic imaging and huge soundstage. I thought the M3 was good, but this is staggering.
2) Crystal clarity
3) May be the flip side of the above, and I'm not the most sensitive in the world to speed - but if this isn't lightening fast I'd like someone to show me the difference.
4) Beautiful openness and purity in the upper half of the audio spectrum: violins, upper woodwind and female vocals are superb
Weaknesses:
1) Tonal balance? Not really sure yet, but see below
When I got the thing home and my back eased off after unpacking it (1am), I tried it with my latest favourite piano - Murray Perahia playing Chopin Etude Op 10 No 4 - and was amazed by the clarity of the sound. I heard him playing this live earlier in the week, and this was a damn close facsimile.
So what have I tried on it:
Poulenc: Organ Concerto (serious bass notes and immense attack from the kettle-drums)
Chopin: Etudes (part meltingly lyrical and part ferocious piano)
Glass: Violin Concerto ( a) frenetic and b)serene violin)
Elgar: Cello concerto and "Sea Pictures".
Mahler: Symphonies 1 (gypsy/jewish band impressions, bass drums)
Mahler: Symphony 8 (part 2 opening incredibly quiet and delicate, pp solo instruments dotted all over the orchestra; finale huge choir, orchestra and organ, very loud)
Moeran: Symphony in G - english pastoral, rolling hillside music.
Beethoven: Grosse Fuge (string quartet)
Schubert: String quintet in C
Handel: Royal Fireworks Music - majestic 18th cent pomp
Scarlatti: Period (i.e. reedy) violins and harpsichords, with immense dynamism and energy.
Albeniz: Suite Espanola (Julian Bream) - meltingly tender acoustic guitar
Faure Requiem: small choir and orchestra
John Tavener: Song for Athene - a capella cathedral choir (sung as recessional at Lady Diana's funeral)
"Friday Night in San Francisco": high-speed Flamenco/jazz guitar trio
Mingus: "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady"
Ellington/Strayhorn: "His mother called him Bill"
Queen: Live Magic
U2: Joshua Tree
Paul Simon: "Graceland"
Overall impression:
Quite simply, the most realistic representation of an orchestra I've ever heard from a hi-fi (although that may not be saying a lot). It's still not the real thing, but I doubt I'll come any (OK much) closer. The layout and separation of the instruments is crystal clear, stuff that should be at the back is there and stays there when the violins start showing off. You can hear them still showing off even when the organ is at full tilt. And there's no hash ;) (well on a good recording anyway). The lyrical bits are pure honey (when they should be). Janet Baker's voice in the Elgar "Sea Pictures" is staggeringly beautiful and rich: I always felt this was a great performance and recording, but I am now getting nuances coming through I never imagined before - now I see why people thought so highly of her in her prime.
And in case you think this is all at the expense of pace etc, I have also never heard anything close to how the "Friday Night" sounded. These guys were in the room with me and the precision of their playing was quite mind-blowing. The dynamics, the fingering....At one point (10:59) in the first track, I've just noticed that someone in the audience (or is it McLaughlin) joins in with a bit of impromptu percussion - four strokes on a beer-bottle (can't tell whether its just Michelob or something proper like Anchor Steam!), and a bit closer listening shows up them doing it much quieter for the previous 10 secs too.
Turning to the "Graceland" - this had all the bounce I could possibly want (particularly in "Call Me Al" and "That was your monther"). And "Under African Skies" worked its usual magic. Lilolee once commented that a particular system was the one he would use for trying to learn a bass-line. I suggest that this beats that into a cocked hat! And the deep bass is pretty impressive too. In the Tavener (recorded at Westminster Abbey) I kept hearing the faint rumble of traffic noise - before pausing the CD and realising it was on the recording. I also now hear a line an octave below what I previously thought was the bass line in the Poulenc.
Oh and the worry about this being only 100 watts? No - this is 100 WATTS. Maybe not as big as a valve watt - jury's out on that - but it sure beats any of your wimpy Class B watts! I had the Mahler on at warp 11 and pretty much the only distortion I could hear was inside my ears. And all the choral parts stayed as distinct as they should (but the choir still sang as a whole). The Poulenc also had some serious bass notes - I would guess about 20-25 Hz - which got me worried about the extension on the woofer cones (getting up to 1cm :yikes: )
So this is fantastic....my perfect amplifier.....isn't it?
Well, this clarity does have a downside. The string quartets are wonderfully present, but the violins are just a bit too incisive for my taste. You definitely get the front row seat and while I do like immediacy, this is too much of a good thing. Even the Berg's version of the "Grosse Fugue" (one of the smoothest out) got me wincing from time to time, and the Lindsay's Schubert showed up their tendency for thinness.
This also started me thinking I wasn't sure that I was getting as much upper bass/lower mid as I expected - cello etc.. This was particularly shown in the rock albums, where I could hear the bass guitars and percussion tracks wonderfully, but Bono's and Mercury's voices did not project as much as I expected. Maybe this is a more accurate rendition of what's on the disc (mastered for the midi?) than I've had before, but at the moment it feels a bit strange.
So where does that leave me? Feeling pretty happy - unless I come across any more problems it looks as if the gamble paid off big time. The sound I'm getting now is streets better than anything I've had here before:
the imaging is close to that I got from the Wilson speakers (even with the TACT), although only if you sit in the sweet spot - the Wilsons did it just about anywhere;
the smoothness and clarity is better than the Bel Canto (although a head-to-head may be required to validate that);
warp factor 11 is enough for me (whereas WM needs 14).
To address the problems I can see at the moment, I think the current plan would be to get myself:
a) balanced cables for the direct CDP-PWR link for recordings where I want the crystal clarity
b) a dark sounding pre (valve?) for where I want a more mellow presentation.
I can then plug both in at once and select using the toggle switch on the amp - and I need something for a radio/TV input anyway (and then there's a TT? Not sure about the sound, but some of them are gorgeous-looking pieces of engineering :D )
And then I'm done! :banana:
(It looks like the M3 could be on its way out. And the Bel Canto is definitely off my shopping list - for now ;) )