Martin Colloms' Naim CDS3 review

***michaelab*** · 10th October 2003, 12:52

I already mentioned it in another thread but here are two quotes that had me laughing my head off:

(talking about the new Burndy lead for the CDS3):
"Accordingly I ran the CDS2 for a while and then substituted the cable 'upgrade'. This resulted in an impressive gain in performance, a clear 10% ...... This is a definite turbo upgrade for the outgoing model, and at quite moderate cost ( £265

)"

Then later:
"Previous references I'd owned and reviewed have scored in the region of 50 points on my scale.... Naim's new CDS3 soared to a straight 80 for a DIN connection and a very close 75 points using the RCA terminations. Allowing both output terminals to engage simultaneously resulted in a penalty for both of about 3-4 marks - intriguing, but in agreement with Naim's advice."

Come on! How is anyone supposed to take this guy seriously when he thinks he can make quantative judgements like "10% better" or "lost 3-4 points" about hifi?

He doesn't even say how he awards points so presumably it's completely arbitrary, just a subjective number plucked out of thin air.

His "points scale" doesn't seem to be bounded either. If the best player he'd heard before the CDS3 was getting 50 points and then he can suddenly award the CDS3 75-80 points (depending on connection type used of course

) that's just absurd.

If you must award points with such fine granularity then the only reasonably way to do it is to start with an absolute maximum of, say, 100 which is then subdivided into, for example, 10 groups 10 points for various criteria like dynamics, soundstage, transparency etc. Score each criteria and then you have your total. I still wouldn't like it but at least there'd be some method to it.

Of course doing it like that would leave reviewers with a problem because they then couldn't keep claiming that each bit of kit was "so much better" than the last without either running out of points to award or "downgrading" previous scores, and that wouldn't be much good for their advertising revenue

Michael.

**merlin** · 10th October 2003, 12:57

Actually Michael,

what made me laugh was the poorer results he got when using it in direct sunlight

I mean he gives the player top marks, declares it a world class reference, and gets his own parking space and warehouse pass at salisbury HQ, and then fails to mark it down because there is no mention of the fact that it can only really play music in a blacked out room during the hours of darkness

**penance** · 10th October 2003, 12:59

Quote:

Originally posted by merlin
Actually Michael,

what made me laugh was the poorer results he got when using it in direct sunlight

erm, is that for real?
you telling me there is a CDp that cant handle being in sunlight?

**merlin** · 10th October 2003, 13:04

Yep Penance it's true,

Glass lid lets in too much light. I would have said that was a major oversight, but hey it's Naim and just look at the ads

**penance** · 10th October 2003, 13:07

oversight being the understatement eh!

**Marco** · 10th October 2003, 13:33

Has anyone here met Martin Colloms? I've met him a couple of times at shows, and he's a bit of a tosser. The only reviewer I rate is Paul Messenger.

Marco.

**garyi** · 10th October 2003, 14:31

Merlin, you as well as the reviewer are talking bollocks.

The glass is practically black and I certainly can detect no differences whatsoever when something is on the glass or not, in other words utter tripe.

I am quite confident that I am not alone, and would have thought you of all people would not fall for such obvious 'filling out a review' crap.

5% penelty for light polution, jesus

**domfjbrown** · 10th October 2003, 14:34

Yep - ANY player that has a clear light path to the CD replay area will be compromised by the light entering - Jimmy Hughes noticed a large improvement when be covered up a little (approx 1cm x 0.5cm) clear window on a Pioneer Stable Platter CDP... In later models the window was removed.

Also, apparently a very high end top loading CDP would jump when people took flash photos of it... My Rega Planet is also top loading with a LARGE area exposed to direct sunlight - often wandered how it would sound if I painted the perspex lid with that green pen "lobster sperm"

***michaelab*** · 10th October 2003, 14:35

merlin - I actually agree with garyi on this one

I very much doubt that the "light" thing is for real. You can't be criticising the reviewer on the one hand and then using his findings to slag off Naim on the other

Michael.

**garyi** · 10th October 2003, 14:53

Sorry Mike, I am a bit narked. I just got a bill from Barnet Council for contraveaning a bus lane.

If its where i think it is its two lanes, one to turn right only and the other is where the bus lane runs out about 2 metres before the lights, to not piss many cars off who want to turn right you have to get in too carry straight on, I think I touched the bus lane for 3 metres and I am not happy the f**kers.

Although the light in the CD thing is as I say utter tripe!

**garyi** · 10th October 2003, 14:58

Dom, don't. this is typical hifi Vodoo that reviewers will use to populirise their writing, give them a bit of 'je ne se que' and generally place them selves above mere mortals who buy the magazines.

this is up there with bi-wiring and turning your speakers to face the wall.

**Lt Cdr Data** · 10th October 2003, 17:50

got to say, the reviewers who have similar likes/dislikes to my own were messenger and alvin gold, tho I am aware the latter some dont like. Its really weird how close the tastes of those two are to my own...
Messenger is an interesting kettle of fish...for one who likes big loud speakers he does keep pretty balanced in his speaker reviews...

dont like colloms' writing much...I think he is a perfectionist, but some of the writing is intentionally formal, unneccessarily flowery and embellished, hard to follow, drawn out and plain dull...

aside from the fact, that of his points system, which can't account for his tastes changing or ears, you can really only tell side by side...methinks...

I think some writers do have an elitism complex who like to think they are above us mortals...certainly colon and jmh do..the crap the latter has written beggers belief..

anyone ever read eric braithwaites reviews...they were fun...come back eric, all is forgiven...

**Robbo** · 10th October 2003, 17:54

I must immediately go out and buy a CDS3 as it's obviously so much better than anything else out there. Well 30 points better anyway, whatever that means

**sideshowbob** · 10th October 2003, 18:52

Points make prizes. What do points make? PRIZES!

Ahh, Brucie. Such a shame he's never on the telly nowadays.

-- Ian

**Robbo** · 10th October 2003, 19:00

You get nothing for a pair - NOT IN THIS GAME

10th October 2003, 12:52	#1
*michaelab* desafinado Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 6,420	Martin Colloms' Naim CDS3 review I already mentioned it in another thread but here are two quotes that had me laughing my head off: (talking about the new Burndy lead for the CDS3): "Accordingly I ran the CDS2 for a while and then substituted the cable 'upgrade'. This resulted in an impressive gain in performance, a clear 10% ...... This is a definite turbo upgrade for the outgoing model, and at quite moderate cost ( £265 )" Then later: "Previous references I'd owned and reviewed have scored in the region of 50 points on my scale.... Naim's new CDS3 soared to a straight 80 for a DIN connection and a very close 75 points using the RCA terminations. Allowing both output terminals to engage simultaneously resulted in a penalty for both of about 3-4 marks - intriguing, but in agreement with Naim's advice." Come on! How is anyone supposed to take this guy seriously when he thinks he can make quantative judgements like "10% better" or "lost 3-4 points" about hifi? He doesn't even say how he awards points so presumably it's completely arbitrary, just a subjective number plucked out of thin air. His "points scale" doesn't seem to be bounded either. If the best player he'd heard before the CDS3 was getting 50 points and then he can suddenly award the CDS3 75-80 points (depending on connection type used of course ) that's just absurd. If you must award points with such fine granularity then the only reasonably way to do it is to start with an absolute maximum of, say, 100 which is then subdivided into, for example, 10 groups 10 points for various criteria like dynamics, soundstage, transparency etc. Score each criteria and then you have your total. I still wouldn't like it but at least there'd be some method to it. Of course doing it like that would leave reviewers with a problem because they then couldn't keep claiming that each bit of kit was "so much better" than the last without either running out of points to award or "downgrading" previous scores, and that wouldn't be much good for their advertising revenue Michael.

10th October 2003, 13:07	#5
penance Arrogant Cock Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bristol - armpit of the west. Posts: 5,946	oversight being the understatement eh! __________________ I got the napalm blues, from my green tin hat to my combat boots Hill 1098, Nui Ba-Na '67

10th October 2003, 14:34	#8
domfjbrown live & breathe psy-trance Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Exeter (not quite Cornwall!) Posts: 2,641	Yep - ANY player that has a clear light path to the CD replay area will be compromised by the light entering - Jimmy Hughes noticed a large improvement when be covered up a little (approx 1cm x 0.5cm) clear window on a Pioneer Stable Platter CDP... In later models the window was removed. Also, apparently a very high end top loading CDP would jump when people took flash photos of it... My Rega Planet is also top loading with a LARGE area exposed to direct sunlight - often wandered how it would sound if I painted the perspex lid with that green pen "lobster sperm" __________________ Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement A tribute to your modern world, your great society I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

10th October 2003, 17:50	#12
Lt Cdr Data om Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: away from the overcrowded south Posts: 1,752	got to say, the reviewers who have similar likes/dislikes to my own were messenger and alvin gold, tho I am aware the latter some dont like. Its really weird how close the tastes of those two are to my own... Messenger is an interesting kettle of fish...for one who likes big loud speakers he does keep pretty balanced in his speaker reviews... dont like colloms' writing much...I think he is a perfectionist, but some of the writing is intentionally formal, unneccessarily flowery and embellished, hard to follow, drawn out and plain dull... aside from the fact, that of his points system, which can't account for his tastes changing or ears, you can really only tell side by side...methinks... I think some writers do have an elitism complex who like to think they are above us mortals...certainly colon and jmh do..the crap the latter has written beggers belief.. anyone ever read eric braithwaites reviews...they were fun...come back eric, all is forgiven... Last edited by Lt Cdr Data : 10th October 2003 at 17:54.

10th October 2003, 12:57	#2
merlin Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,262	Actually Michael, what made me laugh was the poorer results he got when using it in direct sunlight I mean he gives the player top marks, declares it a world class reference, and gets his own parking space and warehouse pass at salisbury HQ, and then fails to mark it down because there is no mention of the fact that it can only really play music in a blacked out room during the hours of darkness

10th October 2003, 13:04	#4
merlin Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,262	Yep Penance it's true, Glass lid lets in too much light. I would have said that was a major oversight, but hey it's Naim and just look at the ads

10th October 2003, 13:33	#6
Marco Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wrexham, North Wales Posts: 275	Has anyone here met Martin Colloms? I've met him a couple of times at shows, and he's a bit of a tosser. The only reviewer I rate is Paul Messenger. Marco.

10th October 2003, 14:31	#7
garyi Wish I had a Large Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,964	Merlin, you as well as the reviewer are talking bollocks. The glass is practically black and I certainly can detect no differences whatsoever when something is on the glass or not, in other words utter tripe. I am quite confident that I am not alone, and would have thought you of all people would not fall for such obvious 'filling out a review' crap. 5% penelty for light polution, jesus

10th October 2003, 14:35	#9
*michaelab* desafinado Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 6,420	merlin - I actually agree with garyi on this one I very much doubt that the "light" thing is for real. You can't be criticising the reviewer on the one hand and then using his findings to slag off Naim on the other Michael.

10th October 2003, 14:53	#10
garyi Wish I had a Large Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,964	Sorry Mike, I am a bit narked. I just got a bill from Barnet Council for contraveaning a bus lane. If its where i think it is its two lanes, one to turn right only and the other is where the bus lane runs out about 2 metres before the lights, to not piss many cars off who want to turn right you have to get in too carry straight on, I think I touched the bus lane for 3 metres and I am not happy the f**kers. Although the light in the CD thing is as I say utter tripe!

10th October 2003, 14:58	#11
garyi Wish I had a Large Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,964	Dom, don't. this is typical hifi Vodoo that reviewers will use to populirise their writing, give them a bit of 'je ne se que' and generally place them selves above mere mortals who buy the magazines. this is up there with bi-wiring and turning your speakers to face the wall.

10th October 2003, 17:54	#13
Robbo Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 2,371	I must immediately go out and buy a CDS3 as it's obviously so much better than anything else out there. Well 30 points better anyway, whatever that means

10th October 2003, 18:52	#14
sideshowbob Trisha Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London Posts: 3,094	Points make prizes. What do points make? PRIZES! Ahh, Brucie. Such a shame he's never on the telly nowadays. -- Ian

10th October 2003, 19:00	#15
Robbo Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 2,371	You get nothing for a pair - NOT IN THIS GAME